breeding brother & sister/mother and father?

Breeding, genetics, sexing? Or, questions about the breeds themselves?

Here's the place to ask away

breeding brother & sister/mother and father?

Unread postby celestina » November 23rd, 2011, 12:34 pm

I have been getting so much conflicting information... my aim is to set up unrelated breeding sets...however...I know people who breed brothers and sisters/mothers and fathers with great success. Any ideas/ your experiences would be much appreciated.
My little ones are pekins in lavender, lavender cuckoo, lemon cuckoo, blue millies and black mottled.
User avatar
celestina
Registered User
 
Posts: 449
Joined: November 5th, 2011, 11:52 am
Location: Monmouthshire

Re: breeding brother & sister/mother and father?

Unread postby Rhode Runner » November 23rd, 2011, 12:52 pm

Father to daughters... mother to son. This is line breeding you do tend to lose fertility after a time. Take a look at this chart from the 1800s. You should end up with three different lines. One from the male line, one from the female line and your own strain down the middle:-

Having said that...can't find the chart I was looking for. I'll post it tommorrow...heres a similar one:-

http://journeytoforever.org/farm_library/ppp/ppp6.html

Allan
We are all visitors to this time, this place. We are all just passing through. Our purpose here is to observe, to learn, to grow, to love...and then we return home.

Australian aboriginal proverb.
Rhode Runner
Registered User
 
Posts: 13134
Joined: June 5th, 2006, 6:15 pm
Location: Cambridge England

Re: breeding brother & sister/mother and father?

Unread postby Gamefowlman » November 23rd, 2011, 12:55 pm

Line breeding as its called is a well established breeding practice used by many experienced breeders. Father-daughter, mother -son, then grandfather- granddaughter and so forth. Occasionally siblings are bred but not recommended for inexperienced breeders, breeding siblings locks in good and bad traits.
Malay , Taiwan Game, Shetland sheep.
Gamefowlman
Registered User
 
Posts: 1783
Joined: December 16th, 2009, 9:22 pm
Location: Wiltshire

Re: breeding brother & sister/mother and father?

Unread postby Hen-Gen » November 23rd, 2011, 12:59 pm

There are a lot of misconceptions about inbreeding/line breeding. In the world of chickens the father/daughter mating is quite common. Because it is easier to buy a good cockerel then breeding back to such a bird is a way of upgrading ones own stock. In genetic terms mother/son is equally good if the hen is a good example of her breed/variety. Either way it is only worth doing if the bird is a top class example.
It is unlikely that any negative consequences would arise but if it was done repeatedly then inbreeding depression may give rise to impared productivity, size, disease resistance etc.
In the world of poultry brother/sister matings are rarely done. This may be more due to custom and practise. I am planning a half brother/sister mating next year (same father, different mothers).
Close breeding is a way of fixing type and developing a strain. If practised for a number of years then variation is reduced and greater uniformity is found in ones hatchlings.
Poultry, sanity in a mad world!
Sheep, insanity in a rational world!
Hen-Gen
Registered User
 
Posts: 1551
Joined: July 25th, 2006, 3:21 pm
Location: Island of Fetlar, Shetland

Re: breeding brother & sister/mother and father?

Unread postby Gamefowlman » November 23rd, 2011, 1:00 pm

Image
Malay , Taiwan Game, Shetland sheep.
Gamefowlman
Registered User
 
Posts: 1783
Joined: December 16th, 2009, 9:22 pm
Location: Wiltshire

Re: breeding brother & sister/mother and father?

Unread postby Rhode Runner » November 23rd, 2011, 1:09 pm

Dug back to 2008 and found the original it's here:-

viewtopic.php?f=43&t=3951&p=50579#p50579

Allan
We are all visitors to this time, this place. We are all just passing through. Our purpose here is to observe, to learn, to grow, to love...and then we return home.

Australian aboriginal proverb.
Rhode Runner
Registered User
 
Posts: 13134
Joined: June 5th, 2006, 6:15 pm
Location: Cambridge England

Re: breeding brother & sister/mother and father?

Unread postby andoy » November 23rd, 2011, 1:17 pm

I do brother X sister matings when parent birds are quite unrelated. This is to fix traits from both parents (e.g. recessive traits from original stock) that you can't achieve from line breeding.

At end of the day, if things go horribly wrong with chickens you can cull.
andoy
 

Re: breeding brother & sister/mother and father?

Unread postby celestina » November 23rd, 2011, 1:22 pm

Thank you so much, this is so useful... and gives me a good overview - thank you. Thank you Gamefowlman, the chart is really useful...

Hen-Gen - you say sister/brother matings are uncommon probably due to custom and practice? Does this mean this practice is not so detrimental in chickens as it is say to humans?
My little ones are pekins in lavender, lavender cuckoo, lemon cuckoo, blue millies and black mottled.
User avatar
celestina
Registered User
 
Posts: 449
Joined: November 5th, 2011, 11:52 am
Location: Monmouthshire

Re: breeding brother & sister/mother and father?

Unread postby andoy » November 23rd, 2011, 1:31 pm

it is not so detrimental to humans as most people think. It is more of a taboo than anything else. In some isolated communities (e.g. Pacific islands the founding population is a little as 2-5 individuals).

Main problem is that some congenital conditions that are recessive, you can't tell people not to breed or cull for ethical reasons.
andoy
 

Re: breeding brother & sister/mother and father?

Unread postby Wilt » November 23rd, 2011, 3:00 pm

celestina wrote:Thank you so much, this is so useful... and gives me a good overview - thank you. Thank you Gamefowlman, the chart is really useful...

Hen-Gen - you say sister/brother matings are uncommon probably due to custom and practice? Does this mean this practice is not so detrimental in chickens as it is say to humans?


I think H-G might be referring to the Poultry industry, where mother and father are different breeds i.e. RIR on LS for sex linked chicks, so not related at all :smt023
women, where would we be without them?
Today, I am mostly interested, in chickeny things.
www.coachhousecochins.com
Chickens, are also food for the soul!
User avatar
Wilt
Registered User
 
Posts: 5002
Joined: October 11th, 2007, 1:54 pm
Location: Away with the fairies.


Return to Breeds and Breeding

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests

cron